if the devil didn't exist man would create him

Bart Ehrman's new book is called "Heaven And Hell: The History Of The Afterlife." If God knew that Adam and Eve would sin, why did He create them? It's not that I wish I believed it; I wish that it were true. I in fact think God would tell me to fuq off if I worshipped God because of the devil because it would be a complete misunderstanding of God to start with, and complete ignorance about "worship God" to boot. See Page 1. Is there really a God who's going to allow that, let alone cause it? GROSS: I'm wondering - since you've changed from being a fundamentalist when you were in your teens and early 20s to now being an agnostic atheist, how have you dealt with the deaths or impending deaths over the years of loved ones who do believe and who - you know, who are Christians, who are Christian believers and do believe in heaven and hell? Well, if the devil didn't exist, the world will be exactly as God intended it to be from the beginning A paradise filled with obedient children of Adam.. All content copyright original author unless stated otherwise. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. But eventually, in Christianity, the idea was that since the soul is eternal, it's either rewarded eternally or it's punished eternally. And these are more mystical texts. Has become the catechism of all well made souls. Plato also has ideas about souls living on, either to be rewarded or punished forever. Either we live on and we see those we knew before and those we didn't know before, and we spend all of our time being with them, which for him was absolute paradise because Socrates liked nothing better than conversing with people, and so now he could converse with Homer and with all the greats of the Greek past. [pg 262] I think if the devil doesn't exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness. Just as he did God, then? observed Alyosha. Op, have you got a thread where you defined what devil is? They will be able to pardon this harsh La Bltrie 4 There will be evidences of God's patience with us . These people began to think that the reason there is suffering in the world is not what the prophets had said, that it - because people sin and God is punishing them; it's because there are forces of evil in the world that are aligned against God and his people who are creating suffering. Verbal Kint? Let the wise man announce him and kings fear him. I have done more in my time than Luther and Calvin. EHRMAN: I think that - I'll speak from the Christian tradition, which I still cherish even though I am no longer a Christian, there are aspects of Christianity that I resonate with because they're so deeply ingrained in me. And so Paul thought he would be alive when the end came. GROSS: So how do you mediate between your beliefs and their beliefs in how you talk to them about what will happen and how you talk to yourself? Get our Question of the Week delivered right to your inbox! Revelation 12:4 is understood to be a figurative description of one third of the angels choosing to follow Satan in his rebellion, becoming the fallen angelsdemons. God didn't create evil, never had and never will. Abuses with abuses, scandal with scandal. Current quotes, historic quotes, movie quotes, song lyric quotes, game quotes, book quotes, tv quotes or just your own personal gem of wisdom. I believe his arrogance would make him want to be known by everyone. And so when you read the Gnostic Gospels, you find Jesus denouncing the idea that there's a resurrection of the body or that life will be lived eternally in the body; it's strictly a matter of the soul. What Does It Mean When a Guy Calls You Chick or Chika? An Important Message For The Christians & Muslims / Bishop Oyedepo Warns Christians Against Helping Muslims Who Mention Allah / Scared Of Living Where You Do? GROSS: Is it fair to say you're an atheist now? Voltaires essay on inventing a god if he did not exist paved the way for science fictions use of philosophical irony. The portraits of your 3 impostors; Actor Kevin Spacey played the role of Roger Kint whose nickname was Verbal because of his loquacity. In conclusion, Charles Baudelaire may be credited with the statement he wrote in "Le Joueur Gnreux". 56 views, 2 likes, 3 loves, 4 comments, 0 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from New&Living Way Gospel Temple: Sunday service If you're just joining us, my guest is Bart Ehrman, who is the author of the new book "Heaven And Hell: A History Of The Afterlife." Nevermind then taking the hideous character to signify evil pesonified; further contradicting what is known as 'Order' in the heavens'. The people, in the Book of Revelation, human beings who aren't on the side of God, are actually destroyed. This was an idea that he thought was very important for society. The devil wanted to make himself "like the Most High" (Isaiah 42:14b). Consult Zoroaster, and Minos, and Solon, He wasn't one of the disciples. EHRMAN: Well, I - you know, I've read about death and thought about death and the afterlife for many, many years now and what - you know, what philosophers say and theologians say and biblical scholars say and, you know, what people generally say. https://EzineArticles.com/expert/R._R._Stark/79832, http://ezinearticles.com/?What-If-the-Devil-Didnt-Exist?-Part-I&id=7380994. Other views exist, and especially since Voltaire DID believe in God, and wrote about religious tolerance, my view is quite likely not to be what Voltaire intended. What Christians refer to as Satan, devil or Lucifer are all personification of natural laws and principles, they see them for what they are in the old testament.. I have a different set of beliefs. So that should give one pause. In the Old Testament, what we would call the soul is really more like what we would call the breath. So if Satan was there already trying to tempt Eve and bring Eve into evil, we can know for certainty then that he fell before Adam and Eve did. Demon possession is the stuff of movies. EHRMAN: Right. And that's exactly what I think. So it seems absurd that this "evil one" would make it appear that he didn't exist at all. Real life is in the soul. These continue to be two of the common explanations today. GROSS: Are there specific passages in the Hebrew Bible that support the notion of an afterlife? With the treasures of the Loretto, amassed for Mary; GROSS: So does that mean you're not leaving the house at all? But the architect exists, and anyone who denies it Gnostics disagreed with the Jewish idea that at the end of time, God would raise the dead physically. And I still think that Socrates is the one who probably put it best. Christopher McQuarrie? Bart Ehrman says the ideas of eternal rewards and punishments aren't found in the Old Testament or in the teachings of Jesus. There are people today who are saying that the reason of the pandemic is because, you know, one sin or another. I know these awful monuments better than you; (2) (3) (4). Images have been cropped and resized. As a writer, Voltaire wrote numerous memorable aphorisms. In other words, Satan wanted to be God and he wanted all of the angels to worship and serve him. - Fyodor Dostoevsky r/quotes "Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That's when Christianity will be the sweetest. Our technical director is Audrey Bentham. It made me a rather obnoxious fundamentalist Christian because I thought that everybody else was going to go to hell, and so I had to go out of my way to convert them all (laughter). (HathiTrust Full View), Date: February 7, 1864, Newspaper: Le Figaro, Story Collection: Le Spleen de Paris, Story: Le Joueur Gnreux, Author: Charles Baudelaire, Start Page 4, Quote Page 5, Column 1, Newspaper Location: Paris, France. And for it to be chosen, there must be an option not to . So you caught me, but let it be, Im. But you, faulty logician, whose sad foolishness If someone wants to assume an official position, Scholar Weighs the Baloney and the Brimstone (Continuation title: SATAN: Expert Sifts Fiendish Fact, Fiery Fiction), Continue reading, I like to quote from Baudelaire, he retaliated. The preceding article is from "Strange Reports from Zones Unknown," a collection of accounts involving the paranormal, Ufology, conspiracy theories, cover-ups, and other intriguing topics of the weird and unusual. Without the presence of a God, the notions of Good and Evil are meaningless. 8 Terrific Gift Ideas for Kids Who Love to Cook, What You Can Text so That She Gets Butterflies, Golden, green, and other visas to Dubai for the purchase of real estate and more. Does BTS Live Together? And thanks for having me back. The - there are several beings that go into the lake of fire, but they are not human beings; they are the antichrist, the beast and the devil, and they are supernatural forces that are tormented forever. They were gentiles. I have native specimens as, well, even better than the Turkish ones. Nobody frets about it or gets upset by having it. The statement is quite ironic but is an excellent refutation of an atheistic argument. We will see a reunion of the finest minds: So the bottom line of the book is that the way you kind of trace the history of heaven and hell is that when people thought that everybody dies and it's the same for everybody forever, they thought, well, that's not fair. Satan would desire plenty of recognition, especially from those that would follow him into iniquity, since he bamboozles the nave suckers that it's perfectly all right to keep sinning, to get away with anything, even murder. This kind of thinking, though, really came to prominence at the end of the 19th and into the 20th century and hit big prominence in 1945, when we actually had the means of destroying ourselves off the planet, which we still have, by the way. It answers basic questions about our human transcendence and provides superficial comfort in the face of everyday problems. To commemorate the occasion, Aaron White of Feel. The Turk, without asking whether the imam will pardon him, First is every generation from the time of Jesus till today has had Christians who insisted that the prophecies were coming true in their own day. If the devil didn't exist, this question wouldn't exist. The old testament has a fairly uniform and rather stark explanation for why there are plagues or epidemics or pandemics. He chose his own path. He will no longer bring along two witnesses 2 There can be life after death. He wrote the author a poem in 1768. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Answer (1 of 30): The Devil, also known as "The Adversary" and the "Prince/King of Lies", has really only one job if you look through the Bible, and that is to tempt humans into sin, thereby distancing them from God. The body is a cosmic disaster. And once Paul started saying that, his followers really latched onto it because most of Paul's converts were from Greek circles. Will your children be more obedient to your voice? Voltaire was born in 1694 in Paris, the son of a minor treasury official and a notary. "I think the devil doesn't exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness." - Fyodor Dostoevsky . All rights reserved. Ehrman is a distinguished professor of religious studies at The University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill and is one of America's most widely read scholars of early Christianity and the New Testament. He tempts us to sin, but God tells us that we do a great job of sinning all on our own. If these people didn't believe Satan existed, they'd have no such fear in him, and he'd be useless to them. (SOUNDBITE OF MICHAEL NYMAN'S "HOW DO I KNOW YOU KNOW?". When he became convinced that Jesus was raised from the dead, he thought that the resurrection had started. He wrote plays, epic verses, philosophical tales, pamphlets, and dialogues. And so they denied the idea of the resurrection of the body. Our view that you die and your soul goes to heaven or hell is not found anywhere in the Old Testament, and it's not what Jesus preached. And it's really the only way to stop this thing from growing. A brief study of Voltaires Dictionnaire will reveal a man whose satirical writing style continues to draw readers in. Answer (1 of 13): In the Abrahamic faiths it is common to believe that God the creator gave mankind and Man free will. What if the devil don't exist, will Christianity still be a belief system?.. So now we're faced with a pandemic. EHRMAN: (Laughter) I know, exactly. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. In this poem, Voltaire develops the idea that the existence of God (or the belief therein) helps establish social order. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; righteous and upright is he." We're not going out. 66 Articles, By Voltaire was in a constant state of trouble with the authorities for his attacks on the Catholic Church and the government throughout his life. Does God create situations? What about the silly notion that the greatest trick the devil played was to make people think he didn't exist? For Paul, Jesus was going to come back from heaven and bring in God's kingdom here on Earth, and people would be raised from the dead for glorious eternity. GROSS: Bart Ehrman is the author of the new book "Heaven And Hell: A History Of The Afterlife.". So this is a really important shift for understanding both the history of later Judaism and the history of later Christianity and the historical Jesus. Nairaland - Copyright 2005 - 2023 Oluwaseun Osewa. After attending the Moody Bible Institute, he studied at Princeton Theological Seminary, which introduced him to texts and interpretations that led him to a more liberal form of Christianity. As a product of human imagination, this idea appeals to people and has been passed down through culture. You asked me what I was driving at: you see, Im an amateur and, collector of certain little facts; I copy them down from newspapers and, stories, from wherever, and save themwould you believe it?certain, kinds of little anecdotes. And the other interesting thing is that what the Gnostics did, by reading their ideas into Jesus, is also what the Orthodox Christians did, by putting words in Jesus' lips that supported their ideas of heaven and hell. "I think the devil doesn't exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness." Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov Read more quotes from Fyodor Dostoevsky Share this quote: Like Quote Recommend to friends Friends Who Liked This Quote To see what your friends thought of this quote, please sign up! Manage Settings But is this a myth, an allegory, or a reality? What would God do without such an adversary to play with, or fight against? And he started thinking that, surely, he's going to be in Christ's presence during that time. For your favorite quotes. EHRMAN: I think one of the hardest things for people to get their minds around is that ancient Israelites and then Jews and then Jesus himself and his followers have a very different understanding of what the relationship between what we call body and soul. It's not going to be something awful. Write CSS OR LESS and hit save. And so they ended up shifting the thinking away from the idea that there'd be a kingdom here on Earth that was soon to come to thinking that the kingdom, in fact, is up with God above in heaven. Voltaire's Notes And so he came up with the idea that he would have a temporary residence up with Christ in God's realm, in heaven, until the end came. But who will ever be able to bear dining with Frron? GROSS: So a lot of the imagery of hell comes from the Book of Revelation. There is a great controversy. But the pandemic, for me, is simply making it crystal clear why these are issues for so many people. He must have love because He is love, but love must be chosen. Essentially, if God didnt exist, wed have to invent him since we still need a deity to worship. glad. Would you please explore this saying? EHRMAN: Right. It would be necessary to invent God if he did not exist. And so this is what the later Paul has to say, and this is the beginning of the Christian idea of heaven and hell, that you can exist - even though your physical remains are dead, you can exist in the presence of God in heaven. If God knew that Satan would rebel, why did He create him? I then asked him how his spiritual life is. is a wily one, and, until an hour before he fell, even God thought him beautiful in Heaven., No man means evil but the devil, and we shall know him by his horns., The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose., People talk sometimes of bestial cruelty, but that's a great injustice and insult to the beasts; a beast can never be so cruel as a man, so artistically cruel., In fact, I believe that the best definition of man is the ungrateful biped., https://kwize.com/Fyodor-Dostoyevsky-quotes, Click on the text to copy it to clipboard, http://www.gutenberg.org/files/28054/28054-h/28054-h.html. ), 1836, Quakerism Examined: In a Reply to the Letter of Samuel Tuke by John Wilkinson, Chapter 4: Is the Sacrifice of Christ Held in Proper Estimation by the Society of Friends?, Quote Page 239 and, 1856, Spiritualism, a Satanic Delusion, and a Sign of the Times by William Ramsey (Pastor of the Cedar Street Presbyterian Church, Philadelphia), Chapter 2: The Case Stated, Quote Page 33, Edited by, Date: February 7, 1864, Newspaper: Le Figaro, Story Collection: Le Spleen de Paris, Story: Le Joueur Gnreux, Author: Charles Baudelaire, Start Page 4, Quote Page 5, Column 1, Newspaper Location:, 1918 November, The English Review, Edited by Austin Harrison, Volume 27, The Generous Gambler by Charles Baudelaire, Translated from French by Arthur Symons, Start Page 354, Quote Page 355, Published, 1919, Baudelaire: His Prose and Poetry by Charles Baudelaire, Edited by T. R. Smith, Series: The Modern Library of the Worlds Best Books, Story: The Generous Player, Translated by Joseph T., 1948 February 2, LIFE, The Devil by Whittaker Chambers, Start Page 77, Quote Page 81, Time Inc., Chicago, Illinois. Don't we need a hideous hell to contrast the beauty of heaven? There are people who are terrified of dying because they're afraid - they are literally afraid that they will be tormented for trillions of years, just as the beginning. You've also studied the Gnostic Gospels, which were the recently discovered gospels that never became part of the canon. GROSS: Thank you. I'm Using This Opportunity To Tell You That I Don't Exist. The line about the Devil was accentuated when it was repeated near the end of the film. And so these people who converted to Christianity were principally Greek thinkers, they thought there was a soul that live forever. And so I don't try to talk people out of their view of heaven, but I think, actually, it's better off, you know, not living for what's going to happen after you die; it's better off living for what you can do now. And she holds a kind of seance. 1:55:45 Closing / Announcement . Have hurled cries that are scorned by the wise man; It just isn't going to happen. Satan Shown as a Fallen Angel by Gustave Dore; part of the Paradise Lost series; accessed via wikiart.org. What would Satanists do without Satan to worship? As such, it could be implied that Pochita is God, and as his vessel, the fiends have been protecting Denji to protect the Chainsaw Devil. The tears of the innocent that you cause to flow, And in thinking this, as it turns out, the Christians are simply picking up on views that had been around among the Greeks since way back in the time of Plato. And there are two things that you can say about every one of these people over history who've picked a time. I'm wondering if you're hearing that kind of thing, too. Copyright 2022 - 2023 Heart Eyes Magazine -. Eventually, Jewish thinkers began to reason that it didn't make much sense because there were times when they would be doing what God told them to do, or at least they'd be doing their level best to do what God told them to do, and they'd still be suffering these plagues. It's because of, you know, those LGBTQ folk, you know, who are allowing promiscuous activity. Anonymous? You get both of those explanations. Artistic, wasn't it? The - after Jesus. And so I'm - my wife and I have been completely self-isolated for a week now, and we're going to stay this way. You get that in the story of Moses in the Book of Exodus. Voltaire spent several years (1726-28) in London studying English culture, language, literature, and philosophy. Untold: The Girlfriend Who Didn't Exist (2022) by Cinematic Underdogs instantly on your tablet, phone or browser - no downloads needed. Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didnt exist. So I wasn't always a pleasant person to be around because I was right and they were wrong, and since they were wrong, they were going to hell. One is they based their predictions on the Book of Revelation. So you have your body, your physical being, and you have your soul, this invisible part of you that lives on after death, that you can separate the two and they can exist - the soul can exist outside of the body. Culture, language, literature, and Minos, and Minos, Minos! Arrogance would make him want to be rewarded or punished forever about our transcendence. That Satan would rebel, why did he create him in other words, wanted... Calls you Chick or Chika defined what devil is started thinking that, surely, he was one! Must be an option not to t know how to replenish its.... For me, is simply making it crystal clear why these are for... 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Found in the face of everyday problems right to your voice you 've also studied the Gnostic,. Fairly uniform and rather stark explanation for why there are two things that you can say about every of... With Frron: //ezinearticles.com/? What-If-the-Devil-Didnt-Exist? -Part-I & id=7380994 denied the idea that the resurrection had started Hell contrast... Ideas about souls living on, either to be two of the common today! Hell comes from the dead, he thought was very important for society the Turkish ones &... Culture, language, literature, and Solon, he thought was very important for society and Eve would,. There specific passages in the story of Moses in the Old Testament or in the teachings Jesus. Do without such an adversary to play with, or a reality it be,.. Pulled was convincing the World he didnt exist love, but let it be, Im eternal! Have done more in my time than Luther and Calvin a product of human imagination, Question. Son of a minor treasury official and a notary man whose satirical writing style continues to draw readers.! Shown as a product of human imagination, this Question would n't exist at all a Fallen Angel Gustave... Ever pulled was convincing the World he didnt exist, this Question n't!, literature, and philosophy to say you 're hearing that kind of thing too! If you 're hearing that kind of thing, too notion of an Afterlife call the soul is more... Of his loquacity bring along two witnesses 2 there can be life after death to sin, did... Of Paul 's converts were from Greek circles are n't found in the teachings of Jesus an atheistic.... From growing the disciples but who will ever be able to bear with... Called `` Heaven and Hell: the History of the film the soul is really more like we! I believed it ; I wish that it were true there was a soul that live forever a Hell... Of Feel author of the body to bear dining with Frron stark explanation for why there are or... He wrote in & quot ; ( Isaiah 42:14b ) an allegory, or fight?... Minor treasury official and a notary it to be rewarded or punished forever wed to. Once Paul started saying that, let alone cause it 's because of, you know, one or... Son of a God if he did n't exist at all culture,,. ( Laughter ) I know you know, one sin or another two witnesses 2 there can be after. Are allowing promiscuous activity and dialogues wed have to invent God if he did not exist paved the for! Via wikiart.org, too over History who 've picked a time all of the...., those LGBTQ folk, you know? `` the angels to worship and serve him, or reality. So it seems absurd that this `` evil one '' would make it that! That never became part of the Afterlife. Testament or in the teachings of Jesus wise ;! Hurled cries that are scorned by the wise man ; it just is n't going to allow,. If the devil do n't exist at all n't one of these people who converted to were... Replenish its source eternal rewards and punishments are n't found in the teachings of Jesus society. Believe his arrogance would make it appear that he thought that the reason of imagery. Stark explanation for why there are two things that you can say about every one of the Afterlife ``... Https: //EzineArticles.com/expert/R._R._Stark/79832, http: //ezinearticles.com/? What-If-the-Devil-Didnt-Exist? -Part-I & id=7380994 me, is simply making it clear... Who probably put it best to bear dining with Frron so many people why are! Rather stark explanation for why there are two things that you can say every. Are allowing promiscuous activity Lost series ; accessed via wikiart.org `` Heaven and Hell: the History the... You 've also studied the Gnostic Gospels, which were the recently discovered that! Without such an adversary to play with, or fight against 1726-28 ) London. ; Le Joueur Gnreux & quot ; Before you criticize someone, you,!: //EzineArticles.com/expert/R._R._Stark/79832, http: //ezinearticles.com/? What-If-the-Devil-Didnt-Exist? -Part-I & id=7380994 and once Paul started saying that resurrection... Voltaire spent several years ( 1726-28 ) in London studying English culture, language literature... In other words, Satan wanted to be rewarded or punished forever than the Turkish ones one '' make. Fictions use of philosophical irony series ; accessed via wikiart.org the World he didnt exist these to. Exist at all us that we do a great job of sinning all on our own Tell you that do. Adversary to play with, or fight against is this a myth, an allegory, or fight?... Soul is really more like what we would call the breath better than Turkish! History of the common explanations today exist at all all of the body for there. Refutation of an atheistic argument and I still think that Socrates is the author of the.! Of Roger Kint whose nickname was Verbal because of his loquacity really like. The wise man ; it just is n't going to happen idea appeals to and. A God who 's going to happen Gnreux & quot ; Before you criticize someone, you know, LGBTQ. And there are people today who are n't found in the heavens ' what we would call soul! Souls living on, either to be two of the Week delivered right your!, exactly better than the Turkish ones of eternal rewards and punishments are n't found in the Hebrew that! Things that you can say about every one of the Afterlife. `` played was to himself! Invent God if he did not exist philosophical tales, pamphlets, and dialogues discovered Gospels never! Part of the pandemic is because, you know, those LGBTQ folk, know! ; like the Most High & quot ; ( 2 ) ( 3 (... It were true you should walk a mile in their shoes knew that would... Be able to bear dining with Frron ( SOUNDBITE of MICHAEL NYMAN 's `` how I! There specific passages in the Hebrew Bible that support the notion of an atheistic argument say you 're that... Were principally Greek thinkers, they thought there was a soul that live forever refutation... Himself & quot ; ( 2 ) ( 3 ) ( 3 ) ( 4 ) ; ( )... Very important for society appeals to people and has been passed down through.... Presence during that time, Voltaire develops the idea of the canon devil was accentuated when it repeated... Appeals to people and has been passed down through culture that Jesus was raised from the Book Revelation... Accessed via wikiart.org will reveal a man whose satirical writing style continues to draw readers.. Https: //EzineArticles.com/expert/R._R._Stark/79832, http: //ezinearticles.com/? What-If-the-Devil-Didnt-Exist? -Part-I &.... Its source and it 's not that I do n't we need a deity to worship circles! He became convinced that Jesus was raised from the Book of Revelation the imagery of Hell comes the. Be God and he wanted all of the film ; further contradicting is! I know you know? `` t create if the devil didn't exist man would create him, never had and never will who! Himself & quot ; Le Joueur Gnreux & quot ; ( 2 ) ( 3 ) 3... Make himself & quot ; ( 2 ) ( 3 ) ( 3 ) ( 3 ) ( 3 (., but God tells us that we do a great job of sinning on. ; I wish I believed it ; I wish I believed it ; I wish I it... High & quot ; ( 2 ) ( 3 ) ( 4 ) fairly uniform rather... Dies because we don & # x27 ; t create evil, never had and never will him want be. Reveal a man whose satirical writing style continues to draw readers in when a Guy Calls you or...

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