358 norma magnum vs 35 whelen
I have shot a few critters, including a tough South Texas Nilgai, and have been happy with the performance. Mark Bansner is making one for me: synthetic stock on a left-hand Sako action. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. They can take their time and pick their shots. Thats the primary game for many of us, but one size doesnt fit all. The Newton was supposedly loaded, by Western Cartridge, to 2,975 fps with a 250-grain bullet, but I, for one, would want to see the chronograph reading. In both cartridges, versatility is limited more by the narrow range of bullets available than by any other factor. With the best loads, my Remington Model 700 is one-hole accurate. Pet Loads and Handloader are registered trademarks of Wolfe Publishing Company. With such a variety of bullets, you would think the skys the limit in terms of different loads, but there are other factors to consider. Its often thought that if they had it would have gained popularity over the .338 Win. Thinking of a medium bore with a bit of thump.9.3 x 62 holds some exotic mystique for me being its use on African large game but I am thinking realistically .366 cant be that much of an advantage over .358 can it? Griffin & Howe developed the semiwildcat .350 G&H based on the .375 H&H case, as well as pioneering the .35 Whelen. Cartridges that in many cases cannot match the killing power, at normal hunting ranges, of comparable .35's. Moderate, safe, bland and predictable. I wont go so far as to say thats foolish, but theres a major difference in size and toughness between a cow or spike and a mature bull. Introducing the Veracity PH from Burris, the perfect combination of reliability, quality, and technology delivering a simple aiming solutiona tool for the hunter that just works. Normas original spec sheet for the .358 Norma Magnum when it was released in 1959 indicated the cartridges ballistics. The .270 WSM and .270 Weatherby deliver more energy, but all three are fine. Nosler has three loads in its Custom line. Out of stock View Details . Honestly, the concept of being overgunned is somewhat mystifying to me, provided you can place the shot. You get the shot you get, and within sensible limits, you must be able to take the shot offered. But when Winchester chambered the .358 the following year in its unique lever-action, the Model 88, it became a really interesting cartridge. Spl. The cartridge predates the more famous .416 by three years, and the .350 Rigby was the first to feature the sharp 45-degree shoulder which is the hallmark of the Rigby designs. The .357 Magnum is ideal for light game like javelina and will do for the smaller species of deer and antelope at short range. To reach the .300 mark, youd need a 270-grain bullet (the North Fork and Woodleigh bullets come immediately to mind), but stabilization becomes an issue in the slower twists, and thats long been a problem in .35-caliber barrels. Today, rifles can be made very light, but that can also be overdone because light rifles are whippy and hard to control when youre out of breath and have to settle in for a quick shot. My 35 Whelen will run 250gr partitions at 2700 fps with power pro 2000 powder. Among my own favorites for the .358 Norma are the Nosler Partitions in both 225 and 250 grains, Swift A-Frames (225, 250, 280) and various Woodleighs, including the unique 310-grain Weldcore. Its spawn, the .351 Winchester Self Loader, fared a little better, but it was never in danger of greatness. Around eight pounds set to go is a good compromise. My .375 H&H seemed quite adequate. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. But starting in the late 1950s, the .338 bore size gained considerable tractionthanks to the emergence of the .338 Winchester Magnum. Synthetic wins over laminate because laminates, strongest of all, are also heaviest. In Johanssons case, disdain for serious training left him vulnerable when the superbly conditioned Patterson came back a year later, gave him a dazzling boxing lesson and reclaimed the title. The .358 Win. factory load is a 250-grain Oryx bullet listed with a muzzle velocity of 2723 f.p.s. Also, after a few dozen elk hunts, Ive seen many taken effectively with lighter cartridges. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, Reloading Centerfire Ammunition: Tips For Getting Started, Shooting and Loading the 6.8x43 mm Rem. 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The .35 Whelen is a fine elk cartridge. In fact, the recoil of the .358 Norma Magnum, at about 35 ft. lbs. But there is no compelling reason to consider a caliber larger than .35. Its a decent cartridge, but American hunters just wont flock to it. Maybe I'll just get a 375 H+H instead of going the Norma route. The .308 Winchester is a fine elk cartridge, and the grand old .30-06, with a bit more velocity and energy, is better. It is a good choice for shooters who are very sensitive to recoil, since its free recoil energy is only about 4.5 ft. lbs. Though still under construction, Im eager to take the classic cartridge into the hunting fields. Kali Parmley, Editor-in-chief of Bakccountry Hunter speaks with Bret Maffet of Franchi Firearms to discuss the all new Momentum All Terrain Elite. The .351 WSL did grab a bit of fame, first as a popular rifle for prison guards and then as one of the rifles used to punch a lot of holes in Bonnie and Clydes automobile (although that accolade is in question). Remington currently lists a Model 7 rifle with a 20-inch barrel; todays version of the 600 in .350 Rem. Now, I have to go out on a limb and say that sensible elk cartridges arent all about power. Mag.They have almost identical case capacity, but the .358 Norma Mag. Out of stock View Details . In the mid 70's I picked up a 358Norma. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. Here in North America big game starts with deer. a good brush buster and good to 300 yards. Have a .350 Rem Mag, building a .358 Win currently, would prefer to do the .358 Norma if possible but not sure if this action can handle it.Anyone? Today we have better bullets than when I was a kid. Since then, I have often recommended medium bores, such as Elmer Keiths favorite .33s, and Ive used the 8mm Remington Magnum a lot. 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The H-4895 load given in the table is not from any manual but was worked up with the assistance of Hodgdon ballistician Ron Reiber. In the 80s, when Jack Carter was making his Trophy Bonded Bearclaw bullet by hand, I did some elk hunting with the 240-grain .375 version. Even the obscure .358 Norma Magnum is the most efficient of the belted-magnum cartridges [note - by the author's own data the 350 Remington Magnum bests the 358 Norma]. This year, H&R announced an expansion of its AR-15 lineup, bringing additional "retro" models to the market, including a 9 mm Luger-chambered Colt SMG clone, an M16A2-styled rifle and the carbine-size 723. SAUM and .300 WSM, with their 180 grain bullets at a MV of 2960-2970 fps, have an optimum range of about 120 yards on 1000 pound animals. was introduced in 1955. For the one perfect all-around elk rifle, Im not sure you can beat the good old .30-06. Real world, the Norma bitchslaps brown bears and moose as convincingly as the 375H&H. The .358 is vastly underated as the Whelen. With a 200-grain bullet at 2460 f.p.s., it is a heavy-hitter on whitetails. Follow along to see exactly how. By coincidence, in that same year, Norma Projektilfabrik of Sweden introduced its own heavyweight champion, the .358 Norma Magnum. The origins of the .35 Whelen are controversial even today. In an age of ultra-specializatio in every field, and especially rifles, such versatility is almost an anachronism. necked up to .35 caliber. Everybody agrees that the .358 Win. Sometimes you get a point-blank shot; other times you need to stretch it a bit farther. Todays Norma factory ammunition is loaded with the companys excellent bonded-core 250-grain Oryx. You know the kind with the locking bolt. That 225-grain bullet has a sectional density (SD) value of 0.251, a bit light for what is normally considered to be appropriate for dangerous game. Clearly, for the hunter seeking heavy game and willing to accept this level of recoil, the .358 Norma Magnum deserves far more popularity than it has received. The 358 Norma is a sure mag round, but expensive ammo and brass. It is very accurate, easy to carry and fast on the target. Compare the .308 Winchester and the .358 Winchester, which are based on the same case, and the .358 wins hands down. Sierras 225-grain spitzer boat-tail, designed for the .35 Whelen, is a stellar performer in the .358 Norma. Nosler offers the .350 Rem. Heres a look at 10 of the most flexible long-range hunting cartridges. A failed product is often said to be ahead of its time, which is usually just a polite way of saying nobody wanted to buy it. On a 600 pound animal like a big bull elk the optimum game range of the .308 (180 grain bullet at a MV of 2610 fps) is a useful 175 yards. There is only .007-inch (seven thousandths) difference between the .270s .277-inch bullet and the 7mms .284-inch bullet. I have used the .35 Whelen on critters from bobcats to moose. Today the .35 caliber family, at least in North America, includes the .357 Magnum, .35 Remington, .356 Winchester, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. crying, My kingdom for a rifle.. My 35 Whelen will run 250gr partitions at 2700 fps with power pro 2000 powder. Mag. Kevin Steele of Petersen's HUNTING is with Dawn Wehunt of Rock River Arms INC. learning about the new Ascendant platform. What should the discerning collector look for in a potential buy? I see no reason to shy away from it. The guide professed to be dumbstruck: I never saw a nilgai knocked down like that, he said, And we use some big rifles here!. Here are the features to watch out for. .50 Beowulf. I will go with the 35 Whelen BUT 9.3x62 will be cool due that you already have a 350 Rem mag, if you're opening the bolt face the 358 STA better option than Norma and 338-06 could be a nice choice too. Synthetic stocks arent always lighter than wood, but they are stronger and more stable, and elk hunting can be hard on rifles. Today, it is strictly a custom proposition unless one of the original rifles chambered for it can be found. So are the .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. was simply a .308 Win. I have needed to reach 400 yards, but never a whole bunch farther. I have become a 35 cal. The "U.S. Rifle, Caliber .30, Model of 1903," better-known as the M1903 Springfield, has become one of the most popular U.S. military small arms to collect. The .35 Whelen is a powerful medium-bore rifle cartridge that does not require a magnum action or a magnum bolt-face. The barrel is a full 22 inches, like it always should have been, but the foolish design with the huge shark fin front sight turned hunters off, and it was dropped. Contributor Brad Fenson takes to the grill, to cook up some delicious venison burgers. As Ive said, I like mediums, such as the unpopular 8mm Remington Magnum and the faster .33s. The ammunition hung on a while longer, but eventually Big Green abandoned her babies and stopped making both cartridges. in an 8.5 pound rifle, is comparable to the much more popular but less effective (on CXP3 class game) .300 Weatherby or .300 Remington Ultra Magnums. But they are not essential, and despite their effectiveness, all magnums from .30 caliber upwards generate more recoil than many folks are comfortable withand are able to shoot well. Any of these will handle just about any big game one might hunt with a .358 Norma, where you want to employ its ample knockdown power. From the .35 Winchester (1903), .35 Remington (1906) and .351 Winchester Self-Loading (1907) to the later .358 Winchester (1955) and .350 Remington Magnum (1965), there has always been at least one .35-caliber cartridge in use. It also notes that the reconstituted Schultz & Larsen company is offering the chambering in its Model 97 takedown rifle. It did shine with 148gr Double ended wadcutters over a few grains of 700x shooting clover leaf groups at 50 yards, I used it all fall putting squirrels in the pot. So while some of my rifle choices may have been oddball, none of the rifles Ive used for elk have been exactly wrong. Yet, that bore diameter produces some of the best hunting cartridges available. On June 26, 1959, Sweden's Ingemar Johansson demolished Floyd Patterson in the third round of their first heavyweight title fight in New York. The quest for an acceptable .35 has inspired such impotent wastes as the .35 Winchester Self Loader, once labeled a candidate for the title: Worlds Most Useless Center-Fire Rifle Cartridge.. It was an 03 Springfield action, unknown barrel, very nice piece of wood, all the fancy metal work done (custom trigger, side safety ala Rem 700, cocking knob and safety removed, milled floorplate, forged bolt, speedloader slots removed, D&T'd ,polished and blued). The .358 Norma can be loaded down to duplicate the performance of either of the two smaller cartridges. No, its not exactly easy on the shoulder, but its not terrible either. First, it will do everything the .338 will, and a bit more. zero-we see that contrary to popular belief, a 35-caliber can be a long-range cartridge. The 35 whelen and 358 winchester were the two I was torn between. The .350 Rigby Magnum is, in the words of veteran Professional Hunter Robin Hurt, a perfect caliber to hunt lion and leopard. With a few exceptions, most African countries require a minimum of .375-caliber cartridges for thick-skinned dangerous game like Cape buffalo and elephant, and that makes sense in most instances. I say that because so many reasonably successful yet hard kicking cartridges have been introduced in the last few years. Particularly when you consider that every one of those newer short magnum cartridges burns more powder to achieve less killing power than the .350 Rem. Compare the Queen of the .35's, the .350 Remington Magnum--the original short (.308 length) magnum cartridge--with the new generation of short action magnums. Too bad Ingemar Johansson was not so well equipped. All in, it weighed over 11 pounds, which is too heavy. I own several rifles in this cartridge and all my .35 Whelen rifles are accurate. These work, but my thinking has changed over the years. Thanks for any thoughts. i have a 35 whelen and love it. Mag.-all with a bigger, heavier bullet that will punch a bigger hole and penetrate deeper. During the spring conservation order, you can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan. It is easy to forget that the .358 bore comes in an extremely varied range of twist rates from 1:16 to 1:12. all were more powerful-and may have been excellent hunting cartridges-but they are gone; rejected by the shooting public and banished to the junk heap of obsolescence. My 8mm Remington Magnum was stocked in dense walnut and had a long barrel. The experimentation with the H&H cases, first by Weatherby and later by Winchester and Remington, certainly changed the way we hunted and made our purchases; magnum mania definitely took root. I have no experience with the Norma mag. Elk bullets must be tough enough to provide adequate penetration. Alas, to the best of my knowledge, its not imported to the U.S. The cartridge is closely related to the .308 Norma Magnum. and the .32 Win. With its spitzer-pointed bullets, the .358 is a good medium- to long-range cartridge with capabilities out to 250 yards on big game. Have all three, and have not shot any of em My medium is a 9,3x62. Shaw rifles 24-inch barrel. of muzzle energy. With the 250-grain bullet, it's better than the .30-06 on heavy game at close ranges. is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time is the wrong description. The .350 Magnum has a case length of 2.742 inches, and an overall cartridge length 3.44 inches, so it will feel at home in a magnum-length receiver. This is because it was discontinued in the mid-1970s, and reintroduced by Remington in 2003. I could get brass easy from each by forming parent cases, 308 and 30-06. The .358 Norma Mag. Also H&R 1871, Inc., offered single-shot rifles in .35 Whelen from 1994 to 1996. Not necessarily top dollar everything. Most ammunition makers have a 200-grain load, and Remington also has a 150-grain load with a muzzle velocity of 2300 f.p.s. Where does the .358 Norma sit, in comparison to the more popular cartridges in its class? The 338/06 when compared to the .35 Whelen only beats it with the lighter bullets and not by much. There are places where .22 centerfires are legal for elk. The Norma factory load, with Normas own 250-grain bullet, performed poorly, coming apart in the chest cavity. figure of 0.300 is desirable, and comparing similar cartridges, youll see the .350 Rigby comes in a bit behind the other popular choices of the day. Don't like Rugers much had my fill of them and now they are gone down the road. pushes a 200-grain bullet to just more than 2000 f.p.s. Elk hunting can be extremely physicalnot only steep country, but also altitude and sometimes deep snow to buck. The .300 Rem. Id mate it with a good 180-grain bullet, top it with a one-inch-tube scope (to save weight), and go elk hunting. The .358 Norma Magnum, like the .358 Shooting Times Alaskan, generates a considerable amount of energy, but due to the caliber restrictions for dangerous game of most of the African countries, it falls shy of the markthe .375-inch bore is minimum for many countries. Back in 1983 Winchester introduced the .356 Win. I have a .356 Win. in an 8.5 pound rifle, is comparable to the much more popular but less effective (on CXP3 class game) .300 Weatherby or .300 Remington Ultra Magnums. Meanwhile, the .358 Norma fizzled, for lack of a better term, because rifles were not readily available, ammunition was expensive and hard to get, and it found itself in direct competition with one of the great American cartridges of the twentieth century, Winchesters .338 Magnum. The major problem with light loads is getting enough pressure to provide a good gas seal. Of course, not all .35-caliber cartridges approach greatness. Just have it rebarreled to 9.3X62, and you will have a 358 Norma with five in the magazine! For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction; that is one of the physical laws of our universe. Every time I use it I ask myself, Whats not to like? Beats me, but nobody liked it enough to keep it in production. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. If the .350 Rigby Magnum was effective in the golden era of safari, modern premium bullet designs will make it even better. Short of a wounded elephant or Cape buffalo in thick cover, there is no game I can think of for which you could not concoct a load in the .358. of muzzle energy. Sadly, my favorite bullet diameter, the .35 caliber, doesnt even rate a blip on the American shooters radar screen. I'm looking for a simpler project on this one. Equal in importance is that you can hit the elk. Well, it betters the velocity of the .35 Whelen by at least 200 fps, much the same as the .338 Winchester Magnum does to the .338-06. This list gives some idea of the .358 Normas status today: Those rifles rarely seem to come on the market. With modern powders the muzzle velocities can certainly beat those of the Cordite loads a century ago, especially in a modern rifle. Blocker Outdoors Finisher gloves, headcovers and other accessories are available in Mossy Oak Bottomland and Mossy Oak Obsession NWTF camouflage patterns to match various turkey hunting terrain. There was a time when I questioned the adequacy of the .270 for elk. I wont be ashamed to take it elk hunting, but today Im certain that level of power is not essential. For the handloader, as the accompanying table demonstrates, the .358 Norma Magnum provides an almost unbelievable range of possibilities, from loads light enough for gallery shooting to heavy enough. Not so the .358 Norma. Make no mistake, the .30-06 is a powerful cartridge, but it doesnt beat you to death and can be built in the seven- to eight-pound range. Hornady has a Superformance load with a 200-grain SP at 2910 f.p.s. That is quite a few cartridges considering that there is not a single best selling rifle cartridge in the bunch. In a letter written to friend Townsend Whelen during early 1920s, Leslie Simpson-- one of the first Americans to become a professional hunter in Africa--opined that the hunting world needed a .35 caliber cartridge . The fortunate few who own them want to keep them, and these are the core admirers who make it worth Normas while to continue offering brass and loaded ammunition. During the spring conservation order, you can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan. Then come the .270s. Also, the 35 Whelen will not do much that your 350 and 358 already do, if anything. The .358 Win. Recoil was completely manageable, and it inspired me to begin the journey of having my own .350 Rigby rifle built. Even so, most experienced deer hunters have pretty good ideas on appropriate rifles. Included in that have been a whole bunch of deer, hogs and a bear or two. Trust me, you could do worse, but youll be hard-pressed to do better! For anyone with an experimental or fanciful turn of mind, the .358 Norma and the many .358-inch diameter bullets are a gold mine. Although such weight is rare, a big bull can exceed 1,000 pounds. The company has chambered several rifles in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic. What keeps it alive? Three rivals: (1) .338 Winchester Magnum, (2) .358 Norma Magnum and (3) .375 H&H.
358 norma magnum vs 35 whelen